From the NFL to Parenting in Crisis: NFL Vet Dustin Hopkins & Gabby Hopkins

0:03Welcome to Brave and Big, where we talk about living a Brave and Big Life. I'm Joey Odom, husband to Kristen, dad to Harrison and Gianna, speaker, former tech co-founder, and author.

0:13I'm Chris Hart, husband to Molly, dad to Blakely, Cooper, Landry, and my son Brave. I'm the CEO and founder of the Brave Group and Brave Performance Agency. Joey and I have been having these talks for 25 years, and we're better for it. We believe the same will be true for you. Enjoy this episode. Be brave and live big. Brave and big! It is on. We are back, and it is a special day on the episode. I will not steal any thunder. Joey, it's gonna just be fantastic. That's right. Would you mind officially introducing our guest today? Is that all right? Let's go.

0:52All right. Gang. Gang, gang. Gang, just like he lasso's plastic steer heads in his garage, we lastoed a great guest for you. This Majdong novice is an NFL veteran who is here to kick it with us today. And he's been around, de-hopped from Tallahassee to Buffalo to DC to LA to Cleveland to your ears and hearts today. He can clear out a dance floor with his moves and clear out a room with his odors. And while he wasn't a model child, he was a child model, blue stealing his way to early fame and fortune at department stores all through Texas circa 2000. He scored 466 points in college, and he scored zero points with the judges at his Oscar Meyer Wiener commissure commercial audition. And don't be fooled by his newest nickname. This doe daddy is more like Doe Mommy ordering iced mocha lattes and soaking in a manny petty any chance he gets. When he's not on the field, you'll find him in a gr in a ground blind with a gun watching turkeys, or on the couch with a Xevia watching botched. He's a bluebell eating master's degree, having Hamilton singing lower lounge lover. He's the best dad we know, and we're honored to have him today. Damas y caballeros, bienvenidos a brave and big nuestro invitado, Rayo Blanco, aka D Hop, aka Dustin Hopkins. D Hop. One of D Hop. That was good.

2:16You did it awesome. Thank you.

2:22Yeah, Holy Spirit led all that. Yes, gave you all those little factoids. Yeah, it was pretty neat. Prophet. Yes, that's right. Big guy. It's so good to see you. Good to see you, man. Good to see you. Chris is. Yeah, it's good to do Chris too. Isn't it? I mean, it's kind of fun. Like I had you on my fantasy team at one point in my life. Isn't this? I mean, this is kind of neat, right?

2:41And depending on the year, it could be a successful year.

2:44Okay, good. Very successful year.

2:46There's a lot of fangirling going on. We have B Hop on the show. Yep. And a lot of people are asking a lot of questions right now. A lot of them. Okay. Just the Oscar Meyer side of things. Just I'm sorry it didn't work out, but why?

3:00I went for a unique angle at that audition. I went for the old like armpit, you know, fart noise. Yeah. And I was rapping as like box was your armpit. Exactly. It was like oh I wish I was an Oscar Meyer Wiener. And it's like whether they want to use this or not, it's like they're going to remember me. Turns out I guess they might remember me, but not for the a good reason. So here we are today. So here we are today.

3:31Didn't get it. Life took a different path. Whole lot to unpack. This is going to be a fantastic time together. You you kicked a little bit in the NFL. Yes. Okay? That's right. But let's start with that. Okay. Where'd you go to college? The Florida State University.

3:50Go Knolls.

3:51What do you say? Top five intros of all time as far as pregame? I mean, are we going to Oh the top. Had a feeling my.

3:57Yeah, yeah. Not top five. It's the. It's unbelievable. Dude. When when they when Renegade and Chief Ossiola ride out there. Have you all been to a Florida state?

4:05Not to a game, no.

4:06Okay. He rides out there, spears on fire. Both teams are like separated to give room for the horse. He goes up there, rears up, and as he spears the ground, the whole stadium goes, whoo! Unbelievable. And it's like, dude, I just got a little some chills right now, man. Yeah. That's awesome. Y'all gotta check that out.

4:26Played under a legend there. Yes, Bobby Bowden. That's right. I hear that you may have a Bobby Bowden impression. And you may have a Jimbo Fisher impression. We can cut any of this.

4:36Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So uh so well let me start here. Coach Bowden, um I was pretty much I knew I knew in my heart and that the Lord was calling me to go to Florida State at this point. But I told Florida State, I was like, hey, uh for me to like commit, commit, I need Coach Bowden to I would like him to come to the house.

4:56I would like that.

4:57And so they standard. That's nice. Sure.

4:59They they they came, Coach Bowden came. Uh I think James Coley, uh Jody Allen, uh they came to the house. My mom made chili. Uh me and Coach Bowden got on the you know little table tennis and ping pong, smoked him. Um maybe, maybe he had it in his younger years, but I caught him at a good time for me uh to bring that victory about. But uh no, it was it was awesome because I remember when I was younger, my mom asking me, like, if you could play for any coach, who would you want to play for? And this is before I I I would know I'd play college football at all. I was like, man, I'd love to play for Coach Bowden. She's like, Oh wow, okay. You know, fast forward several years, and uh there we are. Now I forgot what the original question was. Well, we want to hear about Bowden.

5:40Okay, what's he sound like when he speaks?

5:42Yeah. Oh, oh, oh. He's uh uh we had we had a uh wide receiver named Josh Garys. And you know, like many white wide receivers um at a high level had really good hands, uh, sound fundamentals. Could run a route. Uh could run a route. You know, he if if he needed to break out at six, he's breaking out at six, not six and a half, not five and a half, six. And so uh we used to have these like uh water breaks mid-practice, and Coach Bowden uh he'd call it getting your juice. So instead of like Which is the only thing we'll ever say from now on. Yeah, he'd be like, come on, get your juice now. Come on, get your juice. And we'd like all there's this big oak tree. I don't I think they took it out with the new, they've redone everything since I've been there. But uh we'd go huddle up in the shade of this big oak tree. And uh he's uh he said, uh, all right, uh who has the best hands on the team? He had like a southern like, this is so bad. They're gonna pull voices and be like, This sounds nothing like this. But uh and then they he's like, Josh, get up here. And he gets up there and he's like, he covers his eyes and he's like, Could he catch right now? And everybody's like just not saying anything, like, I guess, I guess not. And he's like, He has the best hands because he has the best eyes. You know, and it just like, okay, yeah, like you gotta watch the ball end. You know, you're taking these things. And uh I think what what why Coach Bowden excelled over the years, at least from what I could tell from the one year, was uh I think people liked working for him. And he let his coaches coach. Like he let he trusted uh Mickey Andrews as the D coordinator. He didn't try to overdo stepping into defense. Uh he trusted Jimbo at the time to run the offense. And he let those guys be experts at what they were doing and tried to kind of paint big picture.

7:30And so which is counterintuitive, which it which you hear actually the same things about Cignetti. You hear the same things about when Mac Brown was at Texas, they allowed their guys to be the best at where they were, which again it feels like even as a leader, because so much we're gonna talk about bleeds into that. But as a leader, it feels like you need to have your hands on everything, or you could make one good decision and hire the right person and let them be in their greatness. Yeah. Man, that's so good.

7:53Maybe go there a little bit. Let's let's let's talk leadership. We got some more football questions. But specifically, you saw two greats you you played for. So can you compare a little bit of Bowden versus Fisher?

8:06Oh, yeah, very different styles. And I was also catching Coach Bowden at the very I mean his last year.

8:12So who I just cared about giving giving kids juice, that's all I wanted.

8:16Get you juice now. Um But I think uh Jimbo was much uh he Jimbo's a player's coach in that he's gonna fight for you to have the best facilities, the best uh opportunities to be successful with uh what's at your fingertips as a player at your disposal. Resources. Yes, resources. Uh I would not describe him as a player's coach in the way he uh he coaches hard. Let me put it that way.

8:45Yeah.

8:46And I I feel like I saw guys crumble under that tough coaching, and I saw tons of guys rise to the occasion. And uh he coached me hard, but I know he he cared about me, and we had a good relationship, even though it's like, yeah, he'd cuss me out of practice if I wasn't having a good day. Or, you know, he'd be ever one practice I like missed a couple kicks. It's going into my senior year, and I think I was coming off a pretty good junior year. And I missed like maybe one kick at practice. I don't even think it was crazy bad. And he's like, Yeah, yeah, all American, huh? Yeah, my you know, cusses me out. He's like, he don't want it. He doesn't want it. You know, and he's uh he's and Jimbo's great. Like he like one one story that always sticks out is we we played a bowl game. Actually, it was my senior year. We played the orange bowl, we won. And uh after the game, my family was visiting me, and he took the time, and the whole bus is waiting for all of us to load up. And uh him and his family and my family, like he took the time, we walked on on the field, and this is like the whole stands are cleared out. It's just us on the field and the lights, and took the time to take a picture of my family. And it sounds like a small thing, but for when a head coach of a major program like they're being pulled in a thousand different directions between media and you know, uh shoot, spending time with their own family, trying to manage what players that are leaving, what like there's a whole thing.

10:10So yeah. What's interesting to me about that is that for for the listener, when you left college, you were the number eight all-time NCAA scoring leader. And so he's not he's not just like getting on his scrub kicker there. He's actually, I assume the goal is to extract the best out of a guy who's already the best.

10:26Oh yeah, I'm sure. I don't think he'd I don't think he's doing it just to beat me down.

10:29I'm not trying to make you feel better, just to be clear. I'm I'm not trying to like say it's okay.

10:35Um But no, I think I think it was probably if I had to guess, like, hey, I don't want this guy thinking he's made it. Let's let's let's cut him down to build him up. Probably. He never said that, but that's what I'm assuming.

10:46Yeah. It's an interesting idea that you can be a player's coach on the resource side of things, but he's not trying to be your buddy on the field. Right. Right. But it honestly sounds a little bit more like parenting, like we want to give our kids everything possible and lead them well and firm and strong, but they know how much you love them.

11:03Right.

11:03Know how much you would do for them. We're creating all of these things. And there's there's obviously the rhythm and the balance to all of that, but that's a fascinating difference of he's a player's coach in this way and not in this way, where Bowden's loving on everybody, end of his career, probably more like a grandfather role, loving on you. So that it's always just fascinating. The different leadership that still gets great results. Right, right.

11:25He was he was big on shoot with his assistant coaches, but also just in general of like, hey, if you're not coaching it, you're allowing it to happen.

11:32Yeah.

11:32And so I think what what bled into that was hey, if I'm not coaching you, like, it's probably not a good thing. If I'm not hard on you, I probably don't care. And so it was one of those things, if you did get chewed out, part of you was like, oh, okay, like he cares enough to chew me out.

11:51You know what I mean? That flow. Okay, so epic college career, all American, big dog, you go to the NFL. Just overarching difference for you if you were just gonna say the difference in college and the NFL for me was um playing for money was an adjustment.

12:11Oh.

12:11Now these college guys now, hey, right, shouldn't have a problem.

12:14The adjustment comes earlier. The adjustment comes earlier.

12:18Uh it would have been nice. No, like I would have made money anyway. But uh yeah, so I think for me, playing for money in college, it was always like there's always the underlying thing at that time of like, hey, I'm a student. I'm a student first, I'm a student athlete, like I'm doing my best out here. And so it was almost like took a little pressure off. And so when you're playing for money, uh, it was like, oh, like we're getting paid all this money. Yeah, like there was this added pressure of like I've gotta be almost perfect. Because I'm I'm I'm getting paid all this money. I should be. This is all I have to do. I'm not studying. It's like and so uh that was an adjustment. And then uh I think as I look back over the course of you know, my career in the NFL versus my career in college, was I felt committed to FSU and I felt like to some degree FSU was committed to me, where in the NFL it was very it's very transactional. Yeah. And not that you make don't make good friendships and people in leadership can be great people, but ultimately it's like, hey, if you're not serving my needs, like we're good. Yeah. Like wish you the best. You know? Which which uh to some degree is like, hey, it's a merit-based business, and it's cool that uh you would think like you have to earn it to be there. So there's that shared respect in the locker room and in a building. Uh but at the same time, it just didn't feel uh it doesn't feel quite the same as being at like home, like Florida State, like when I mentioned the intro, it's like it's nostalgic, it feels like home. Yep.

13:51Where certain spots in the NFL didn't feel like what what is I think for not everybody listening can relate to playing in the NFL, but everybody can relate to something you just said there, which is effectively how are you learning to manage pressure? Which I gotta think as a kicker, I gotta think that's in the moments that has to be about the highest pressure moment in sports is you're standing there with you know with with uprights 54 yards away, sure, down two. So what did you learn in in terms of managing pressure that as you think of, and we're gonna talk about when we when we um when we bring Gabby out here as well, just like managing a family, um, managing other things professionally. But for somebody listening, what did you learn, some of the principles principles you learned about managing pressure? Sure.

14:34Uh I I I I've still got a lot to learn. I'm still learning. Like I I kind of I like to consider myself a lifelong learner. Yeah. And so it's such an interesting subject matter of like pressure and performance, and especially with through a gospel lens.

14:48Yeah.

14:49And so for me, I I would break it down into kind of two categories. This is where I'm at, of the overarching uh lens, if you will, was like, man, the Lord is working to my good in all this. Romans 8.28 is like I can trust whatever happens like results-wise, um because I trust what God has done with my life. I can look back and see how he's been faithful time and time again. And so that was always the the overarching belief of God's got me. And that doesn't mean success on the field, but I can know that whatever happens, it's for my good. And I can re I find rest in that, I find peace in that. Um so that was always that was always where I where the foundation. Now in the moment, I would fill my head with I I would say a prayer before I went out there. Um not for like luck, just like, hey, I'm trying to invite the Lord into everything that just like a rabbit's foot, like inviting God into this. Yeah, a he brings peace. Like I want the Holy Spirit to like that peace to wash over me. Um but second, it's like there's nothing too you you hear some people talk about, like, God didn't care who wins, He didn't care about sports. It's like, but he knows that the hair is on our head and he knows when a bird falls to the ground. Nothing's too big or too small for him to care about. So I was just trying to, and I'm still working on this. I'm not a finished product by any means. This is like I want to pray more than I do now. But I'm just trying to invite him into those rhythms of performance as well, just like I want to invite him into those daily rhythms of life. Um but in those moments of like when I'm on the field, it's more process-oriented. I'm sitting there and I'm thinking, like, um like a couple of my keys over at different times would be like short contact. It's reminding me for my first step to be small and all I'm focusing on, very simple, is like I want to contact the ball first. Like I don't want, I don't want to just kind of like swing through a zone. Like I want to be focused on hitting the ball first. So um I always say my job is extremely simple. It's like if you describe it to somebody, like my my two and a half year old be like, see those yellow poles? We put this ball through that. It's like super simple, but it doesn't mean it's easy. Yeah. And so uh yeah, I just always focus on being process oriented. And it's like the results will worry about themselves. Like that's all how I've looked at it.

17:11What's funny about that, I imagine somebody going, how many of us go into, let's say we're leading a meeting, we'll just roll into the meeting versus taking a moment, like you you have such a definable task in front of you to where it forces you, almost forces you into process. But I think a lot of it's very easy, or even Chris, you told me winning the driveway. We think about getting home before we go in for the night. What if we all had that little moment of exactly what you said? I'm walking into a meeting. Here's the little verbal cue I tell myself to go set to go walk in with intention.

17:40Yeah, what about your your kids coming home from a gate? This is what we do and what we don't do after a kid wraps up a game. This is what I do when I walk into a sales meeting.

17:48Yeah.

17:48This is what I do when I make that sales call, right? But like guys do it in golf. Uh sports is such an easy example of that. Sure. You have to do it, but it's funny that we wouldn't realize that we have to do it everywhere else. Right? This is what we do on the way to church. This is what we won't do driving to church. Right? That that how can we prevent chaos and actually set up a formula to put ourselves in the best position? That doesn't mean everything's gonna be perfect. Right. But we're actually giving ourselves the best chance. Yeah. Short. I mean, just now I know exactly what to do to get the result I'm looking for. Right, right. Yeah. It's good. Let's go grit. You want to? Yeah. You you had to learn this, navigate this. Part of your story is an injury that actually led you into football in the first place. That's right. Right. So you've you've walked this out.

18:32Or focused my football career anyway. Yeah.

18:34Yeah. You want to go there just a little bit? Like that let's speak to that, and then what what has grit looked like for you to actually accomplish everything that you have? Yeah.

18:42Um first of all, I probably I bet grit is not probably something people initially associate with kicking. Right. So I appreciate you just, you know, lumping me in that category.

18:51Big, strong, swole human. Yeah. Oh yeah. You're a kind man. You're a kind man.

18:54Um yeah. So the injury part is uh I'm in ninth grade at this point, playing as many sports as I can, but uh it's during the soccer season and I I tear my hamstring. And I would rest for like three weeks, try it, try to come back, and I couldn't run. It's like I did it the day before. I'd rest a month, try to come back, didn't do anything. You know, nothing I was doing. And it sounds it's super minor. Like people are like, yeah, people hurt their hamstrings all the time. But as a ninth grader, sports was kind of like um as much as I'd like to say, because I was a believer at this point, it wasn't my identity. It was a huge piece of my identity, at least of like in sports to some degree was kind of taken away. Yeah. And so it was a really frustrating time as like a 15-year-old of like, man, I can't do the things that I love to do. And so uh I always kicked for my pee-wee team when when you're eight to at that point when I was 15. But it was always a side thing. It was always like, uh, like I'm a I'm a running back and I kick and I kick too. Or like I'm a safety and I I yeah, I kick. But it was always like not as cool, you know. Even though it was a it was a natural gifting, even when I was young. I was like, yeah, I could just kick a ball farther than most of my peers. And so uh through that injury, I couldn't run because that pullback and mechanism, whatever, but I could swing my leg through and it didn't hurt. And so it was like, well, if this is all I can do right now, I guess I'll work on my kicking because I can't run. And so I went to a uh kicking camp and uh shout out Jamie Cole. He's become a he's a great friend of mine, and uh really invested a lot of time and effort in to develop me as a player. And so I go to a camp and we leave, and I didn't go to get ranked or anything, I just wanted some instruction because I had never got instruction before to that point. I just would kick a ball. And uh we left and they did national rankings, and they ranked me like I want to say number two in my class. What grade what grade were you in again? Uh freshman year, so ninth. Wow. And so it it kind of opened my eyes of like, hey, as much as I want to be a Division I safety or whatever, yeah. I was like, it seems like there's a natural gifting here before I even like knew kind of where I would fall on the totem pole of performance nationwide. You know, so it was uh got God used that injury. It's just shoot, just like the cross, the devil always overplays his hand. It's like God is gonna use those things that we view as setbacks for for our good and for his good and for the for the good of the kingdom. And so it was through that injury, which was a what uh up into that point, probably the most frustrating thing I had dealt with that he directed the path of the rest of my life up to this point. Uh shoot, I wouldn't have gone to Florida State, I wouldn't have met my lovely wife we see sitting over there. Um, and I wouldn't have the two kids I have right now. Yeah. Yeah. So it's just like it's awesome to see how the Lord weaves together our life.

21:57Is that the camp where you kicked 85 yards?

22:01Oh, I don't know.

22:02There is. A kickoff video. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's the camp. But that's year that was years later. Amazing. Right? Yeah. That's so cool. We're going to bring out Gabby in in a moment, but I want to you you talked about it there. You said something that I've heard a common thread. We heard Pollock say it. I've heard other people say you just you said I could just kind of always kick a f a football a long way. And so there was a natural gifting and talent in you that you recognize very early. So the message for people, we got a lot of people whose kids play play sports. Sure. And you are, and we're always trying to, because we've been through it, Chris is in it, I've been through it, and trying to think how as a sports parent do we navigate our child in sports, how much we're giving to it, how much they're sacrificing their childhood, how much they if they recognize natural talent, what they do. So it really open-ended. But for people who are listening who whose kids play sports, what would be the one or two pieces of advice you give to sports parents?

22:59Yeah. Well, A, I'm I'm like, I haven't had to fully navigate this myself. So I'm learning, and I've put a lot of thought into this as well. But uh I guess I and let me I'm gonna I'm gonna do a long-winded answer. Yeah. I think with my oldest wake, and I think we'll touch on this later, uh, is on the autism spectrum, nonverbal. Uh I wouldn't have been the dad that's like, I'm living vicariously through the athletic achievements of my son.

23:26I don't think the great thing about playing in the NFL is you don't have to live vicariously. Yeah, exactly. You did it. Yeah, exactly. You get to do what you want.

23:32So I don't think I would have been that dad, but at the same time, I do think I would have like uh maybe propped it up more than I should have. And so now interacting with Wake and just finding the joy of being with him in the simple pleasures that he's he enjoys, whether that's like jumping around or hand simming or we're jumping on the trampoline or whatever. Yeah, uh the simple pleasures of life, the the joy I find, I'm so much more concerned with like the character and kindness in my children. Of like, hey, uh how do they treat others? And I know that's like it's very like, I don't know, um fluffy language for somebody that's like might be out there, but it's like I think ultimately that's it's a lot more true than whether you're a great high school football player, and maybe even if you're fortunate and blessed, a division one player in the NFL. It's like uh so I I guess I would say I I want my kids to lead me in what they're passionate in. I want them to be passionate about something, and I want to build them up in that. Uh, but I also want to speak into their giftings, you know, and I'm never gonna probably tell them what they uh can't achieve, but I'm also gonna be like, hey, let's break this down. It's like, where do you feel like you excel naturally? Yeah. And like, do you enjoy that? You you know, do you feel the joy of the Lord in what you're doing here?

24:58Yeah.

24:58And so I think you kind of take all that into account on like what you want to encourage and where.

25:04Yeah.

25:04Um, but I think I I wouldn't have probably said this in college because I don't think I had um the wisdom to see it, but I'm like, I'm so much more concerned now with what sports teaches. Yeah. As far as like, man, are you a good teammate? Do you care about people? Do you do you honor God in the way that you're working? Yeah. Of like, I I've I've just always felt I've never I don't want to squander any gifts that I've been given. It's like I wanna uh I wanna use what God has given me and be squeezed out for the gospel. And that includes whether you're uh uh a carpenter or a window cleaner or an NFL player or an accountant or a high school football player. And so it's like, hey, I I'm much more concerned with you giving everything you have into what you're pouring into.

25:53Yeah.

25:53Whether you're successful or not is not the point.

25:55You know. So good. So that's a long-winded version. That's really good. Really good. Can we kick this interview up a notch? Is that okay? Would that be fine? I think we go up a few notches. I think a few notches. We now welcome the real power of this power couple. That's right. For twelve years, our second guest has earned her sainthood by loving her husband through his questionable fashion choices, his nighttime snoring, his wind breaking, and his ice cream chewing, which I don't even understand. She's a flower grower, a dancer, an interior designer, a calligrapher, and a photographer whose work has been featured in e News and People Mag. She's light as a feather and sharp as an arrow. She single-handedly keeps the young adult romance TV industry afloat. Thank you. And she likes emo music just as much as she hated co-editing mural softball in college. Dustin calls her sweet woman. Her friends call her Gabs, and even though she's an angel, you better not call her Gabriel at a coffee shop. She's a golden girl and the funniest Hopkins, and she's joining us right now. Gang, please welcome to Brave and Big, Gabby Hopkins. Come on, Gabby.

27:00Whoa.

27:01Oh my goodness.

27:02Oh, that's it.

27:03I feel so special. Thank you. Well, you are so special. I will say Dustin nailed it. Our viewership is gonna spike right now. We're gonna see a notable increase. First female on the pod was just brought up. Bowser's.

27:14I'm honored. I am honored.

27:16Take this.

27:17I'm gonna take this. I'm gonna hold this over here.

27:19Bear the weight.

27:19Yeah. It's gonna be great.

27:21You guys really invited us because of me.

27:24Yes. We didn't even know Dustin. I just learned that you kicked football. Is this what you did? Yes. Yeah, yeah.

27:31He needed this.

27:32Yeah, this is neat for him. Yes. I will tell you one thing, everybody listening, you have to follow Gabby. Her relentless roasting of her husband on Instagram is just wonderful. Thank you. I just told her about that.

27:44I was like, the stuff that wives can get away with, you know, putting their husband on blast. Yeah. But it's like, A, I don't want to do that. But B, you cannot do that.

27:53And that's wisdom.

27:54And that's wisdom. Yeah, well, you explained there was some outfit that he had on the other day. It looked like a beekeeper. Do you remember this one? Oh, his duck waiters.

28:04You were doing I don't know.

28:05With an SPF long-sleeve hoodie.

28:07Always an SPF.

28:08My dad and I were working on building like a like redirecting water. There's like a little small creek in our backyard that's kind of eating away, eroding at our yard. So we were built in building a little barrier.

28:18Yeah. Yeah.

28:19And so I didn't want to get wet. Oh, you were in safety first mode.

28:21Uh yeah. So if you don't take a vacation, I'll take that towards it. That's a great point. That's a great point. So beekeeper.

28:28Interpret me gets bugs.

28:29Gabby, we I I'm curious, like the this whole idea of Mary. Now you weren't you y'all were in college when you got and got in engaged at the 50-yard line at Doe Campbell, is that right? Is that correct?

28:40Yes, yep, engaged.

28:42The year after college, but yes, it was a big thing.

28:43Yes, four four years. Yeah.

28:45But he's still he's a big dog. He's in a he's a big deal at the time. Like what is that? I want to I want to hear about like identity for you in that. Like he's your boyfriend, you love him, you know all his, you know, all his flaws, which are few. But what is that like in terms of not adapting somebody else's identity and maintaining yours?

29:04Aaron Ross Powell Right. I mean, that is something I feel like I didn't really struggle with that because I feel like I had a lot going on for myself. Um, I was a student, I was a student athlete, I was on the dance team, I had a full-time job. Like I had a lot going on for myself. And also I knew the Lord, I know the Lord, but I also knew the Lord. So my identity wasn't so much wrapped in being his girlfriend or Dustin Hopkins' girlfriend. It was, no, I'm Gabrielle, I'm the daughter of a king. Like I'm the Lord's. So while we were dating, I didn't really have a lot of that. I feel like there was a shift, and I did kind of go through a window of man, what I don't, I don't really know what's going on now when we got married and we moved to it was I think New Orleans New Orleans.

29:54How many moves did we have now?

29:56Oh my gosh. I mean, I think we're up to like 21 moves in 14 years. Is that right? Yeah, yeah. That's not an exaggeration.

30:02It could be in the same city. Wow. But yeah, yeah, yeah.

30:05Where it's it's a lot. Um, but yeah, at that at that point in time, I think it was New Orleans. We were freshly married, um, and I couldn't get a job anywhere. I'm in a new city, I don't know anybody. I danced my entire life, and now I had no dance. So I feel like I went from a hundred miles an hour to zero. And I was very much like, what do I what do I do? And now I've just got to kind of follow him around. And you know, you had been cut by Buffalo. We moved to New Orleans, we get settled, he gets cut by New Orleans like two minutes to the cut deadline. I thought, I'm like, you you love showing people this photo, but I'm like, oh my gosh. I'm like crying my eyes out, like, what are you gonna do? All this stuff. And he's like, we're gonna be fine, let's take a selfie. I'm like crying my eyes out.

30:53And this would be great.

30:53And sure enough, that's what happened. But yeah, I I did have there was a stretch of years there where I was like, man, I I've my whole life flipped upside down in a very opposite way. Where his yours flipped upside down too, but you know, you have the community of the locker room. You have he has built-in community wherever we go, and and that's hard for the wives and the girlfriends. There isn't really that. Um, so yeah, so there there were there were a few years in there where I was not that I lost my identity, I just like was like, I don't know what to do, and it did very much feel like, oh, I'm just Dustin's wife. And and I kind of take a back seat now.

31:29So you give me maybe I I what you just described, I promise you someone listening is feeling that way. And so if you were sitting at coffee with that woman or that fellow who is feeling exactly what you just described, like what would what would be the the word of encouragement to him?

31:43I I mean I would say lean into the Lord. Um be the the absolute best wife that you're called to be. Um, which is that that not that didn't become my identity, but that I I did latch on to that of like, man, the Lord is calling me to be his support now and like champion him and encourage him and support him in any way I can. Does if does that look like moving a million times and handling the logistics? Yes, I'm gonna do that. Does that look like building him up when he's had a hard day at work or practice or a bad game? Like, yep, like I'm I'm gonna take that seriously and I'm I'm gonna put my all into that. Um so lean into what the Lord has given you for this season of life and give that your all. And for me, I felt like the Lord was saying, like, hey, you you are the support.

32:34Yeah.

32:34Um, it's not your time to do stuff for you and and be selfish. It's time to be selfless. Um, so I I kind of took that to heart. So I don't know, just talk to the Lord, lean in and and put all your chips into what the Lord is is guiding you to.

32:52There's something about stewarding where you are, yeah. Right. And and there's a lot of ideas about what it could be or should be or somebody else is doing. But props to you. I mean, just the the stewarding that and then making it possible without that, it sure is hard to move 21 times and keep your head above water and and actually set up the next team. I am curious, are there any are there any perks or benefits of being a NFL player's wife that that people wouldn't normally know about? Are the snacks amazing?

33:18Like what what before you Before you answer this, I just want to say the negative side was what I was thinking of when she said I couldn't get a job, a lot of it because she'd she would interview and they would find out what I do. And they'd be like, Well, we don't know if she's gonna be here in four months. Right. So it was almost like a flip, like oh, we can't commit to you, we don't know if you're gonna be here. Like so there's a negative side. But go with the positives.

33:42I'd love to positives. Um health insurance is wonderful. I'm I'm I'm talking like functional, like what are what are some everyday things that are like great? And it's like you know you're an adult now when you're thinking about health insurance. Um the health insurance is wonderful.

33:58Well, it's not so much of a child Chris is he just went to snacks. Like, what there's gotta be snacks in the side of the room? I don't know what the insurance is. What about the snacks?

34:07You know, every every team is different in what they may or may not offer to families and wives or significant others. Um I think the first chunk of your career, we were with a team that at the time, it's it could I think it's different now, but at the time they didn't really do a lot for families and a lot for wives. So it was kind of like, nope, you're on your own, fun for yourself.

34:29Um It was like meet in the parking lot.

34:31Yeah.

34:32Bring your own stuff in a cooler if you want.

34:35Um we were very fortunate to kind of get very close very quickly with the punter at the first team that we were with for like seven years. So that was nice. Yeah, shout out. Trust and Bruce. Um there are people. Um so I don't know, you kind of you just kind of had to figure it out for yourself and you were on your own. There have been other teams that have done a better job with help coming around families and welcoming them in and you know, doing family events or wa wife, wife-specific events. Um but that is, I feel like a little bit more few and far between.

35:10Wow. I've got something, and you can expand upon it. I think when I spark your memory, you'll go on a run. But uh we we started a foundation called the Well Foundation to help fam special needs families. And we we do some other stuff of like supporting some college ministries and uh anti-trafficking stuff as well. But our our our heart and focus is with special needs individuals and families. But part of that started talking about benefits of being on a team. Um financially, you're when you're playing, you're doing well. But also uh when when we were navigating a diagnosis with our son and and she was on it, like he's so blessed that uh she's his mom. But uh to get to a developmental pediatrician, part part of the thing right now is there's like a year-long wait list or two-year-long wait list.

35:58Yeah, yeah.

35:59And so, but but part of the biggest treatment is like early intervention. The earlier you get in there, the better. But you can't get those therapies uh covered by at least partial by insurance unless you have a diagnosis, which you can't get because you're waiting to see the the developmental pediatrician.

36:16And so you want to expand upon like how I will say that that was that was wonderful. We did very rarely do we play the football card, but I I looked at Dustin because I eventually finally got a referral for developmental pediatrician at um Kennedy Krieger in Baltimore, because we were in Washington at the time. And it was a two-year wait list to even get him evaluated. And so I looked at Dustin, I said, We gotta play the city.

36:40You were like, You gotta do it. I was like, okay. And I never did.

36:43And I was like, So we we asked, we asked um the team doctor at Washington, and we said, Do you know anybody? Yeah, we're like, Do you know anybody at Johns Hopkins? And he was like, Yeah, yeah, I do. And so we were at Johns Hopkins getting an eval and a diagnosis two weeks later. Wow. Um, so the Lord really worked in that, and that was definitely something that I will always be forever grateful to for the NFL is that connection.

37:13That's amazing. But it was through that of like, hey, we have really good connections. We're financially stable right now. And this is still a really hard thing to navigate. Yeah. Of like, what's the next steps? What do we do? And so that kind of led us uh years later after this, because we were still trying to catch our breath ourselves. But it was like, okay, what about those families that don't have those connections, those financial resources? It's like it's hard for us. It's gotta be really hard for the majority of people out there. Yeah.

37:42And so that's kind of what sparked the well foundation.

37:44The well foundation, yeah.

37:46Well, we Chris and I have seen the two of you in action as parents. And we've met sweet Wake and Wiley, and and will you will you talk to us about Wake? Will you will you tell us about um about him, about how you learned, have what what you noticed early on, kind of what his journey has looked like, and really what your journey has looked like with him.

38:03Aaron Powell Sure, sure. Um Wake is incredible. He is so cool. Like, he is he is like the coolest kid ever. He he doesn't just take everybody in. So if you're kind of like chosen by Wake, like you should feel pretty good about yourself.

38:19Nine years old now. He's nine years old.

38:21He's about up to here on me. He is tall, he has long legs, long arms, he is he is just so funny. Um when he was about a year old, it was just shy of a year old. I I kind of knew something wasn't I don't know, it it just wasn't sitting right with me, his development. And so I just I had this feeling, and so I went to his pediatrician and you know, she was brushing me off. She was like, no, like it's he's fine, like I don't see anything. And then 15 months rolled around and and he wasn't he wasn't really talking. He had said mama and dad maybe one or two times, and that was kind of it. And then, you know, we would call his name and and he wouldn't turn to us. And so then I was like, okay, I was like, maybe maybe he has a hearing issue. Should we get his hearing checked? But then, you know, he would hear something like a noise across the room or a movie would come on and he would look. So I was like, okay, I don't think it's his hearing. So I went to a speech therapist myself, paid out of pocket, and I said, and had him evaluated for his speech delay. And I also asked, I said, Hey, do you do you are you seeing some maybe signs of autism, like any red flags? And she's like, Well, she's like, I can't say, you know, from a diagnostic standpoint, I'm not allowed to. She's like, I wouldn't say red flags, but maybe some pink flags. And I was like, okay. And so I went back to his pediatrician and I said, Hey, I I want to get him evaluated. And she was like, He's he's a boy, you know, boys talk later. What if he's three and he's not talking, then you know, maybe we'll go down that route. And I said, Well, that doesn't really make sense. And at this point, he's he's about 18 months old. I said, I I don't know. She's like, Well, it's like a two-year wait list anyway to get into a developmental pediatrician. I said, Well, so why wouldn't you give me the eval now? And then if I don't need it two years from now, great, you know, cancel the appointment. I said, but but why would you not give that to me? And she was she was like refusing to give me the referral. You want Mama Bear on her? And I want Mama Bear. I said, I am not leaving this office unless you give me a referral. I will sit my butt down here and I am not leaving. Yeah. And so she like rolled her eyes and she gave me this referral. That's when I called Kenny Krieger, sure enough, to your wait list. And that's when I told Dustin, hey, let's use the card. We went and after a three-day-long eval, I drove him to Baltimore every day for three days, which was not a great adventure. Um, but I took him and they at day three, they handed me the diagnosis and said, He absolutely is on the autism spectrum. Here's some pamphlets, and here you go. And I was like, Oh wow. And so that's that's when that began. And I remember I was not not to put you down or make it seem like you're an absent father, but no, go ahead do it.

40:58Don't be on the bus.

41:00But you know, it's it's we're in football season when this happened. It was October.

41:03She's handling it.

41:04And so he's you are not physically present, and and honestly, like mentally, you're not really present. You were there and and when we came home and everything, and it was great. But I think he needed to be focused on football and his job. Um, so it was very much up to me to navigate a a diagnosis. How what does this look like for him? What does it look like for us? What does it look like for his future? Where do I even start? What therapy, like how much therapy insurance is crazy? Like it it it flips your world upside down.

41:39And I'm very like, or two personality types. I'm like, hey, stuff will work out. Like, hey, it'll be fine, you know? Stuff as like and it's not that the Lord, the Lord does take care of everything, but He's He's also given us uh some autonomy to step into what we've been gifted to do as well. And and like, so it was just really uh the joke now is I'll be like, babe, it's gonna be like it'll get done. And she'll be like, yeah, because I'm the one that's gonna do it.

42:10Yeah, because he's like, he's like, we've always found a place to live. And I go, yeah, uh-huh, because I did it.

42:15Yeah, amazing how that works, yeah. But I say I say that to say it wasn't a denial thing, but I was very much like, hey, a little more like, we'll see how he develops. Like it'll be okay. And and like she just said, and and we're our family is so much better for it, of like the checklist of things that she's rattling off of what needs to happen, what needs to be done. Yeah. The time frame in which it needs to be done.

42:37Right, right. So so yeah, it was, I mean, that was it was a lot, but we, you know, we figured it out. A lot of it is honestly trial and error.

42:45Yeah.

42:45That's what it is.

42:46And but all is that to say is like Wake as a person is like super high energy, uh has a deep connection with the people he chooses to have a deep connection with. It's like even though words are not there, there's this weird, like he stares at your like soul when he connects with you. It's like there's a deep connection that I honestly don't have with typically with like uh neurotypical people. That even though there aren't words, it's like a deep staring from like three inches away is not uncomfortable. It's just like the way it's supposed to be. Yeah. You know, and uh yeah, he's he's gifted, he's super smart.

43:23Uh he's very athletic, but does not not into sports.

43:27He's like her, he's like, if it's too hot outside, he's out. If it's too cold outside, he's out.

43:31It's gotta be like a good 72 and sunny, and I'll be outside. And he's the same way.

43:35And then our youngest is like, I'm outside either way.

43:37Yeah.

43:38Yeah.

43:39I'm curious about that. You just mentioned that that that closeness, and I think about in relationships, I think about the idea of intimacy, the the idea of fully seen, fully known, fully loved. Gabby, he's not able to reciprocate love to you in the way that you are, that you you you with probably Wiley with your with your younger son. Absolutely. What is what is that like in terms of connection and intimacy with him? Even though he's not able to do it in a way that that may be normal for us is in interacting with other people.

44:05Right. I think I think it's an everyday learning curve for me. Um it's something that I am actively trying to be more aware of because even the even the way that I receive love versus the way Dustin receives love is very different. So so taking that out of neurotypical context and putting it in a neurodiverse context, like it's it's a whole different language. It's a whole it's a map of a country I've never been in before. Um so it's it is tough. And it it's I am learning every single day, but not having, you know, verbal instruction from him, that is really hard as a mom. I don't know what his favorite color is. I don't know what his favorite movie is, I don't know how his day at school was. I don't know what he did. I don't know what he dreamt about last night. I don't know, is he crying at night because he's having a nightmare or does something hurt? I don't know. So it is hard with not having that verbal communication. All of my communication with him is reading his bodily cues. How is he holding himself right now? What his eyes look kind of pinched, you know, is something hurting him? Like he's kind of favoring a leg. Like, did he hurt his leg? Does he have a bruise? Do I need to check for a bruise? Like everything is is a guessing game. But when he stops, like you said, when he stops and he just gets three inches from you and stares at you, it it is a beautiful, magical feeling of okay, like we're connecting, and that's how he connects. So I think for me, it's re-w rewiring my brain to it's it's a different way of seeing and communicating love and communication just in general. Um and I just have to slow down and and look at something from a whole different perspective. And so it's a shift for me. Um, it's a change. I need to change my expectations and and my perspective when I'm when I'm with him versus Wiley or you or anybody else.

46:14I've got three thoughts. Okay. If I can hold on to all three as I speak, get him out of it.

46:17You can do it, you can do it. I know you can't.

46:19One is just the other day, Wiley saw ketchup in the fridge. And either I'm holding him or you're holding him, I don't remember. It was me. And he goes, ketchup's my favorite. And I look at her and she starts crying.

46:31I have a ball in my eyes.

46:32And she's like, it's the first time I've heard one of my kids tell me one of their favorite things. And it's like something we long for, that intimacy of like, I want to know my son. Sons. But it that that's just like an example of like things you miss out, very simple things that you're like you long for as a parent, that she is excellent at watching Wake so much better than I am. She'll be like, Yeah, he wants uh graham crackers. I'll be like, How do you know that? Sure enough, go get some. And he's like, like, you know, just acknowledges her, like, that's exactly what I want. Like, wow, you know. Um that's two of them. No, I forgot the third.

47:14You got it.

47:15You can do it. No, that's okay. It's okay.

47:17Dustin, you gave one of the most profound statements on prayer to Chris and me a few months ago. We were playing pickleball and we we were just talking. And will you I'm sure you can remember that, but talking about your son's voice, will you will you relay to us that thought you had and that that revelation you had about God?

47:35Yeah. Um let's see if I can convey it right, if it's the same way you remember it. But uh we were sitting there, and I think I was expressing to you that prayer is something that like, and I'm sure a lot of people can relate to this, of like, I want to grow in. It is not where I want it to be. Um, but I think being Wake's dad has helped shape me in that. Uh I I think I used to think I had to structure prayer in a certain way, or all these things. But the bottom line is like, I just want to hear Wake's voice. Like, uh as a dad, I like with the deepest parts of me, I want to know what he's thinking. I want to know what uh who he is, what he cares about. And I want to hear the I remember I was listening to a sermon one time, and they're talking about like the sweetest thing you can hear as a parent is the voice of your child. And and I'm just breaking down. And uh I just I just pivoted that with like, hey, even though the Lord already knows our heart, like I was just reading recently in Psalm 56 where it's like, um, you know, with with oh, what is it? It's bef before a word is on your tongue, like, oh Lord, behold, you know it all together. It's like so he doesn't like with Wake, the Lord knows what's on his mind and in his heart, like there's no disconnection there. And I try to preach that to Wake. But what that taught me is like, man, God our Father just wants to hear our voice. It doesn't have to be dressed up, it doesn't have to be perfect, I don't have to, I think I get locked into the trap sometimes of like, I need an hour of solitude, and it's gotta be a perfect environment as opposed to what I was saying earlier of like, hey, I'm just gonna talk to my dad as I walk through my day, whether it's 10 seconds, an hour, or one minute. You know, and so uh the same way I long to hear my son's voice, God our father longs to hear our voice.

49:32Yeah.

49:32So let's go a little bit overarching.

49:36Yeah. Okay. Pause real quick. What's our time check for Gabby? We're at 23. Okay, we've got it. We're good. We're gonna do five minutes.

49:41We can get you on this minutes of the recording.

49:43How many? 52. Okay, perfect. Perfect. Maybe four. Okay. Yeah. Sorry about that.

49:48Let's go overarching. I wish everybody could meet both of you. Yeah. You're engaging, you're present, you're happy, you're joyful, all of the things. Don't lie to these people. They're not gonna meet you, so I'm just gonna go. So, all that being said, I'm I'm fascinated by this tension, maybe is the right word. You've navigated hard and complicated, but you never let any of it be a hindrance. And I I specifically I think about an NFL career, you being a fantastic mother and just all that y'all are, but you moved 21 times. That in itself is hard and difficult with added circumstance to it. Yeah. Right. So I say all that because everybody listening is thinking through the lens of okay, I'm dip this is what my thing is. This is what's difficult in my life. This is what might make it hard for me to fulfill the call of God in my situation. What would y'all say to that? You're you're in the middle of it, and you know you're so humble, you're like, hey, we're still figuring it out, right? Oh yeah. But there's what you want to say. I mean, yeah, but you're you're this living fruit and proof of a great life that brings honor to God as you've navigated hard things. Speak to that just a little bit. You're thriving, and everything in these last 12 years is thriving or striving. But maybe can you speak as a couple? Obviously, there's the individual side, but together you're powerful. Yeah. And it's neat to see what you're doing right now in the midst of everything else. I've got something.

51:18Go, go, because I know you'll I think I messed up what I quoted earlier. It might be Psalm 133. It's okay. It's okay.

51:24I I had a check in my brain already. Yeah, yeah. How about you, man? Sorry.

51:27Thanks for not correcting me. That's okay. Yeah. Um But yeah, so but in Psalm or in Psalm 56, um I was just telling you about this in the car.

51:38Yeah, like right before we walked in.

51:40Of and I'm not, I'm I don't want to make it seem like, oh, we're suffering. Feel sorry for me. That's what not what I mean. But uh the verse on I think David is captured in Gath by the Philistines, and he's writing this psalm, and it says, like, and I might this is a Dustin Standard version. It'll be close. DST. Yeah, DST. Um, but it says something like you you you account for my tossings. Uh you you you you store my tears in your bottle. Wow. And it's like, is, is not uh, it might not be sufferings, but it's like, are my sufferings not written in your book? It's like everything that we encounter, everything we suffer, um, all the hardships, it's like, A, God cares about them. Like He's keeping He sees He sees us in those things, like He's accounting for our tossings and turnings, what keeps us up at night. Um, and you don't store things in bottles unless you plan to use it for something. And it's like, come on, I trust that God, that's really going to take those sufferings, and I don't know how. The same way that the disciples watching Jesus be crucified, I don't think they fully grasped until he rose again what was going on. And so the same way that we encounter those sufferings, God will use that for good. And whether I know that on this side of heaven or not, I don't know. We may never know. But I trust what God is gonna do with that. And it's like ultimately, uh, I think about the gap from what I know to what my two and a half year old knows and what he thinks is right, yeah, and and the disconnect of what he understands is so vast, right? Uh, how much more vast is our knowledge between us and the creative universe? And it's like some stuff, and not that God is trying to hide anything for from us.

53:30It's just it's not for us to know.

53:32Some stuff is not for us to know. Or maybe we're not capable of knowing or fully grasping, but I trust him with it. And so it's like I trust that they're accounted for, that they're gonna be used, and that he cares deeply about me.

53:45Right.

53:46He cares enough to take account of it and see me in that moment and that we're not alone. You know.

53:52Yeah. Sorry. I mean, that was that's massive. That was pretty good. I echo everything. Oh, yes. Um man, I just think about how much more peace and joy I have in my life with Jesus in it. If I did not have Jesus and I was going through everything that I've been through in this life and will go through, if I did not have Jesus, I would have a much darker, bleaker outlook on life. Knowing Jesus does not does not mean that your life is going to be easier or that it'll be sunshine and rainbows and butterflies. You will still have hard. You will have trouble. You will have trouble. You will have suffering. But the promise of the Lord is is is everything. It gets you through it. I trust that every like you said, everything that He has thrown our way, it's for our good. It is it is pruning us and shaping us and and strengthening us. For for what reason, I don't know. But I know that Wake, because Wake exists, our foundation exists and has been able to help kids, adults, and families solely because Wake exists.

55:06Yeah.

55:06Um, so I don't I don't need to know the answers. There are days where I'm like, Lord, come give me something. Like give me something. You know, there's so many days like that. So many days where I'm weeping and crying. But I I know I know that I have the joy of the Lord. I know this is all just a a v like what did what did Pastor Dan say? It's a vapor.

55:31Yeah.

55:32This this life is a vapor.

55:34Um I think on the other side of eternity, and this is hard to walk in, and it's not to diminish any suffering that people go through, but it's like all the suffering here will be like a shadow.

55:45Yeah.

55:45It's like the closeness we will be to God, it's like he's gonna be close enough to wipe the tear from your face. And I think this will be, I don't think we'll forget, because I think it'll make God all the more beautiful. But it'll be like a vague memory, you know. That's really good. Yeah.

56:01And I know, I know I'll hear maybe I do hear Wake's voice in in this lifetime here on earth, or maybe I don't. But I don't I I know I will hear his voice in heaven one day, and he will be whole and beautiful, and and I will get to know him on an even deeper level in heaven one day. Whether I get to do that now or if that's an eternity, not for me to know. But it is something for me to hold on to and look forward to.

56:32Yeah.

56:32Um yeah.

56:34I would say for people listening, I believe the way we can help Wake's voice be heard is by giving to the Wealth Foundation for people who can participate in the work that you're doing to make sure that his voice, nonverbal as it is, is going out to other families who are hurting. So where can people do that? I'd really do if you are listening, even if it's ten bucks, if it's to participate in the work, to make Wake's voice heard by people and families who are in those situations. You can go to the well um fdn.com. Well, the wellfdn.com.

57:05Thewellfdn.com and there's there's a donate button you can do there. We are not immune to the knowledge that the world is what the world is right now and the economy is hard. So even if you cannot give monetarily, uh would you just pray for us and our special needs communities and all kids and adults on the spectrum and and their families trying to figure it out just like we are every single day. Um so monetary donations are wonderful and yes, needed for us to continue to do the work that we're doing, but man, it prayers and also reach out to the special needs community. Have your friends make friends with the kids in exceptional education at school.

57:45I I mean teach your kids that it's not a taboo subject to talk about kids that might be different. I I think the natural inclination of a lot of parents is you see a kiddo that might be different in a Starbucks. It's like don't stare, and that's friendly. Instead of being like, hey, this is our friend. And even though that he didn't he he can't talk to you, it's like it doesn't mean you can't talk to him and that he doesn't understand. It's great. And it's like so it's like don't be afraid to engage with families. Yeah. Um, even if they're you know having a hard time or talking to the parents. And um yeah.

58:21We end every episode like this. We're gonna we're gonna put it on you today. Okay, what do you got? There's people listening that have been moved by you, I think probably flabbergasted by your depth, you know, all that you are. But what we challenge everyone to do is to live a brave and big life. So I'm gonna give each of you a second. If you were gonna kind of say in your your synopsis of this, for you, everything we've talked about, navigating difficulty, trusting God, things that have been bottled up are gonna be used again. But if you're gonna challenge people listening to live a brave and big life, Gabby, what would you say?

58:55I would say put all your faith and trust in Jesus Christ. That's it's the boldest thing you can do.

59:02The boldest thing you can do. What do you got, Dia?

59:07Um I don't even know if it directly applies to your question, but it's what popped in my mind. Of I think the church, and it seems to be a tide turning in some ways, but the church as a whole, I think not not truly, but at like a cultural level in the in the United States, often has been like, hey, defined by what you shouldn't do or can't do, uh, and kind of removing themselves from society as a whole to some degree, like to protect yourself, as opposed to like, hey, we're called to storm the gates of hell.

59:44Cool.

59:44And you've been empowered to do it. And so what are you gonna do? And I'm still fleshing this out for myself of like, what have you been given? What's at your disposal? What influence do you have uh to make yourself a problem for evil? Wow. And so and I'm preaching to the choir. That's to me too. And so I'm convicted in myself to as I say that. But uh, I think if the church lives a lot more like that, yeah, and the Lord will change you as you go, as opposed to, hey, I shouldn't do that. And it's like rather than walking, walking in love, and that changes you as you go, you know.

1:00:26Thank you all for being here. Thank you for what you're doing. You're both spirit-led, you're anointed, you're confident, and people need what you have. Yeah. Everybody listening, let this be an inspiration to you. Get hooked up with the Hopkins family. We got your back. We love you. Thank you. Live brave and be big.

1:00:44Let's go.

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